Bowhunters of Utah

Alright the invites for the Elk Committee went out today and BOU will be at the table.

I can't stress how important it is for BOU to get member input for this important process.

This is your Organization!!! Like the logo says let your voice be heard!!!!!

Come on, folks. Nobody has anything to say about this?

FWIW, I think Utah needs to simplify elk management. We currently have spike units, general bull units, limited entry units, premium limited entry units, CWMUs and a crowd that now wants to implement "I400" management on 4 or 5 units. Some places we manage for population objectives, others for bull/cow ratio and others for age objectives.

Funny think, the dang elk don't read the management plans.

It's getting to the point where you almost need a lawyer and a cartographer to keep it all straight. Never saw an elk read a map, either.

The problem is that there's too much effort being made to please everybody instead of just doing what's best for elk AND the other animals they share habitat with. Seems to me that since elk are relatively easy to grow, a sound management plan wouldn't need to be altered every year aside from revision of tag allotments.

K.I.S.S. Anything you can do toward that end, Gordy, would be a good thing.

I hate to sound like a broken record but the vast amount of conservation tags is still top on my list. Those tags should be put in the draw system. There are other ways for the state to raise the money. Like raise the price on a non res tags and require them to buy a 130-150 dollar license to apply. People will still pay it especially if their odds of getting a tag are better.


The other obvious problem is having the bow hunt to early and the rifle hunt in the rut. If the bow hunt was where it should be you could give a few more tags and keep the kill ratios the same. Same with the rifle hunt. This problem goes hand in hand with my first problem. As long as the rifle hunt is in the rut those certain high power conservation groups will fight to keep it there. because they can sell the tags for so much. And for good reason anyone with a early riffle elk tag in this state should easily kill a trophy.



This is my opinion and the voice I want heard. I realize these are very controversial topics and my ideas are rough and need some expansion but I feel they are huge problems and I think there are others out there that feel the same.

Hey Gordy,

I'm curious as to what sort of things the Elk Committee can accomplish and what things would they/we just end up spinning wheels on. Do you have any insight on proposals or changes that are realistically being considered that we could speak up on and give some input?

The more I read about I400 the more I like the direction they are heading, or at least what they are trying to accomplish, but Finn has a great point. Trying to keep track of all the different hunts is kind of overwhelming right now and I'm sure adding another option will just compound that problem.

Like Bowboy stated I think we need to work on getting the appropriate weapons in the appropriate times. I realize this will lower success rates but it will increase opportunity which seems to have lost focus concerning elk in Utah. I believe if we can get the focus back to opportunity it will be better for the community and for the elk (there is no opportunity if there are no elk).

I think with all the hunt options we have no one really knows what is helping or working. One thing for sure is we can't keep heading down the road we are on. Too many hunters are getting frustrated with the system and their inability to draw a tag. Of course once they draw they want a 100% success rate on 400 class bulls and although this isn't realistic it seems to be the expectation in Utah for more and more hunters. We need to reach some sort of compromise here.

A few things I'd like to see -

1. Less conservation tags - I like the sportsmans and governers tags but we need to get rid of the others


2. Programs that work - Everyone seems to be hunting for either a spike or a trophy, not a whole lot of opportunity for anything else


3. Appropriate use of weapon types and seasons - having the most effective weapon in the field during an animals most vulnerable time doesn't make any sense. Let's get this fixed and increase the opportunity for everyone


4. Remove less effective hunts & programs- Let's get rid of what doesn't seem to be working. Ideally replace them with something that will, but if not let's at least make understanding our options a little bit easier.

I'm sure there are a ton of issues with all the ideas above that I haven't even thought of yet, I'd like to hear what they are and get any other ideas that are out there.

What is on the table, what has already been considered and what haven't we thought of yet?

cmarcher wrote:
Hey Gordy,

I'm curious as to what sort of things the Elk Committee can accomplish and what things would they/we just end up spinning wheels on. Do you have any insight on proposals or changes that are realistically being considered that we could speak up on and give some input?

The more I read about I400 the more I like the direction they are heading, or at least what they are trying to accomplish, but Finn has a great point. Trying to keep track of all the different hunts is kind of overwhelming right now and I'm sure adding another option will just compound that problem.

Like Bowboy stated I think we need to work on getting the appropriate weapons in the appropriate times. I realize this will lower success rates but it will increase opportunity which seems to have lost focus concerning elk in Utah. I believe if we can get the focus back to opportunity it will be better for the community and for the elk (there is no opportunity if there are no elk).

I think with all the hunt options we have no one really knows what is helping or working. One thing for sure is we can't keep heading down the road we are on. Too many hunters are getting frustrated with the system and their inability to draw a tag. Of course once they draw they want a 100% success rate on 400 class bulls and although this isn't realistic it seems to be the expectation in Utah for more and more hunters. We need to reach some sort of compromise here.

A few things I'd like to see -

1. Less conservation tags - I like the sportsmans and governers tags but we need to get rid of the others

I agree. I also think the thought is out there that without conservation money, the states hunting opportunity and quality would atrophy, which in my opinion, would not be the case. Some have a lot to gain by pushing this type of fear to the masses and over-inflating their importance to the well being of the average hunter and their prey . The number of tags Utah gives out compared to all other western states is down right embarrassing and unnecessary.


2. Programs that work - Everyone seems to be hunting for either a spike or a trophy, not a whole lot of opportunity for anything else

Again, I agree. I have said many times that a simple poll of hunter desires needs to be run and the state needs to be managed accordingly (DUH!). If 15% want trophy tags every 10 years and 85% want opportunity, DO IT!


3. Appropriate use of weapon types and seasons - having the most effective weapon in the field during an animals most vulnerable time doesn't make any sense. Let's get this fixed and increase the opportunity for everyone




4. Remove less effective hunts & programs- Let's get rid of what doesn't seem to be working. Ideally replace them with something that will, but if not let's at least make understanding our options a little bit easier.

Would you mind expounding on this one?

I'm sure there are a ton of issues with all the ideas above that I haven't even thought of yet, I'd like to hear what they are and get any other ideas that are out there.

What is on the table, what has already been considered and what haven't we thought of yet?

Maybe Gordy can change the topic of this one to "What would you change with elk management in Utah?" Because I agree (Seems to be a theme) that we all need to share our opinions, so the a proper representation is made. Otherwise it is assumed that we are happy with the status quo.

I too like the I400 proposal, IMO what we need are areas where we can hunt "branched antler bulls" during the rut every 2-3 yrs, and the years we are unable to do that, we can hunt the usual spike units. why do most hunters go out of state to hunt elk? I think it is to hunt during the rut and there is that chance that you may find a good 6pt bull to shoot.
why do we need the whole state LE units where we might be able to hunt them 2-3 times in our life. Yes i know there are general units, but i dare say that most of the general areas (excluding uintas) is private property or part of a cwmu. where can we go as general archery elk hunters and have a chance at a branched antler bull, the options are limited(please correct me if im wrong)

Fez

To be honest I don't know that much will change at all. One of the biggest hang up's with season dates had been the MANDATED opener of the general deer hunt. Now this date is no longer set by law things may be able to be tweeked some. The Division is under pressure from sportsmen to shift hunts around and they are also under pressure from livestock interests to
use the range for as long as possible.

When it's all said and done the debate will basically center on not destroying "quality".

All that being said we are pretty much out of options with how we manage elk in the state,
We've killed cows to the point that bull to cow ratio is higher than it should be, we've tried management hunts and now we are going to open up the Limited Entry units to spike hunting. Wouldn't it just make a little more sense to just take a few more mature bulls???
We don't have a shortage of big bulls in Utah we, we have a shortage of harvested big bulls.

Keep in mind, this is my opinion, not the BOU stance thats up to all of you and it's my job to look out for elk first and then represent all of you as well as I can.

Tye wrote:
cmarcher wrote:

4. Remove less effective hunts & programs- Let's get rid of what doesn't seem to be working. Ideally replace them with something that will, but if not let's at least make understanding our options a little bit easier.
Would you mind expounding on this one?


Tye,

I have actually been doing a bit of research on my own about this. Once I have some good examples I'll be sure to pass them on as I'd like to get some input and feedback. Right now however it "Seems" like what we are doing isn't working - I'm interested in finding out why I/We feel that way and what is actually trying to be accomplished by all the different seasons/tags/programs the DWR currently has in place. It could end up being they are dead on and everything is working great, but it sure feels like there is alot of room for improvement for both the elk and the hunters.

If anyone has any information as far as programs or studies we have available please share the link or post them on here (you can attach files to the forums if needed - PDF is best). I'm using the Utah DWR website as my main source of information, and honestly it's a bit daunting trying to gather everything up...

OPPORTUNITY is what most of the people I talk to want in this state. If their were more elk hunting opportunities it might take some pressure off of some of out over pressured deer areas.

Just another possible benefit from having the bow elk hunt where it should be.

"what we need are areas where we can hunt "branched antler bulls" during the rut every 2-3 yrs, and the years we are unable to do that, we can hunt the usual spike units. why do most hunters go out of state to hunt elk? I think it is to hunt during the rut and there is that chance that you may find a good 6pt bull to shoot.
why do we need the whole state LE units where we might be able to hunt them 2-3 times in our life. Yes i know there are general units, but i dare say that most of the general areas (excluding uintas) is private property or part of a cwmu."

Fez already stated my concerns. I don't see why every unit in the state needs to be managed for huge trophy bulls. The few small open bull areas are not enough. The Uinta's is way over hunted, and where else can you go, Lightning ridge...lots of people there too.

Gordy, maybe you can pursuade the DWR to actually send out surveys and listen to the general public about what we want in stead of what SFW and the other high dollar influences want.
Heck they (somebody listened to the southern boys this year)might get an eye opening responce if they emailed or sent out a survey to all the hunters with a license.
I, for one, would like to have an opertunity at a medium sized bull in the rut every 2-5 years instead of 2 LE tags for a early hot hunt for lifetime of applying.

It's sad to say but this state is becoming very unfriendly for the bowhunters.